Larry Warner, who refers to himself as the beloved of God and enjoys going barefoot, is a teacher, a pastor and a spiritual director. He is an associate professor in the area of spiritual formation, Ignatian spirituality, and spiritual direction, currently teaching at the Institute of Spiritual Formation at Biola University and Bethel Seminary, San Diego.
As a spiritual director, Larry meets with pastors and church leadership throughout the world. He is a retreat leader, author of Discernment, God’s Will and Living Jesus; Journey with Jesus and co-author of Imaginative Prayer for Youth Ministry. In 2005 he founded b (b-ing.org), a spiritual support organization for pastors, missionaries, seminarians and church staffs, which encourages them to open to God’s love and to live Jesus in new and deeper ways.
Larry has a varied vocational background. He was a youth pastor for eleven years, a Los Angeles Deputy Sheriff for six years, and a senior pastor for ten years, before founding and leading b for nearly twelve years. Though roles and experiences changed, his passion has remained the same: to help people more fully embrace God’s love and to live more fully into and out of the person God has called and created them to be, free to love and serve others in lifegiving ways.
Larry has been married for over 39 years; he is a father of four and a grandfather of five
In the interest of full disclosure, I should tell everyone that you were the youth pastor at my church when I was a child, and we are Facebook friends now. At the church you were known as “the beloved youth pastor.” Now you use a different title. What is it, and what inspired you to select this title?
“Larry Warner—beloved of God” is my chosen title. I choose this title because it is very important to own who we are as a new creation in God through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. It is interesting to me that after Jesus is baptized and God announces, “This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased,” that Jesus then is taken in the wilderness where he encounters Satan. In the first two recorded encounters between Jesus and Satan, the attack is focused on Jesus’ identity — “if you are the son of God” — to me this is a cautionary tale and a sober reminder of the importance of owning who we are — the beloved of God.
You are the founder and executive director of b. What is that, and what inspired you to found this?
b is an organization that is concerned with the spiritual welfare of those in full time ministry and those in seminary preparing to enter into full time Christian ministry. We do this through providing spiritual direction (one on one monthly meetings), leading retreats built around silence, solitude, time to be and to listen and some teaching.
This organization was birthed through my encounters giving spiritual direction at national conventions of pastors and youth pastors. As I provided spiritual direction at these events I began to realize the plight of many in ministry and their need for someone to be there for them — to listen, and help them to reconnect with their first love so I started b in April of 2005.
You have a new book coming out. How many other books have you written and published? What is the name of this one?
This will my 4th book and the title is Journey with Grief: Navigating the First Year of Loss.
Journey with Grief is deeply personal to you. Why is that?
This book is deeply personal for two reasons; the first is that it flows out of my experience following the death of my son, Nathan, in 2003, and the second is that I have experienced and witnessed the additional pain others can cause as they come to help those who have suffered loss. This book is really two books in one — helping those who have recently suffered loss and equipping those who come alongside those who are hurting.
Revisiting this incident must have been very painful to you. What inspired you to put yourself through this to write this book?
I actually had no desire to write this book and was in the middle of writing a very different book on Romans 5-8. In October of last year, while journaling, I found myself writing a poem about the anniversary of Nathan’s death, which is October 31, and felt led by God to post it on Facebook. This seems very strange as it was the first time I had the desire to post anything about Nathan’s death on Facebook, so I knew to pay attention to what I was sensing and what this might mean. As I stopped, focused and listened, I sensed God leading me to write on grief, so I packed up all my materials on Romans and began to write on grief.
You spent a long time discussing the preposition in your book’s title. I recall talk of Journey through Grief, but you rejected that. Why?
The original titles were Your Journey through Grief and Your Journey with Grief. I decided to post them on Facebook and see what others thought. I received some very insightful comments that led to the final title — Journey with Grief. I decided to drop “your” because although it communicates well the uniqueness of the journey, it also could tend to paint a picture of navigating this journey alone, which is a temptation at such times. Getting rid of the word “your” helps make the point that others can be involved. It is your journey but not solely your journey. The other shift was changing “through” to “with.” The word “through” speaks of process and movement from one place to another. Again, all this is true and not true. I do not think you get through grief, and grief becomes a part of your life and you learn to live with the reality of your loss as it shapes you. You do not get through it and return to normal but are again by grief embracing a new normal as you continue your ever-changing journey with grief.
Your book consists of two sections. The first is for those grieving and the second for those who want to help those grieving. What does the book say to those who are grieving?
This is a tough question to answer, for there is much communicated about grief in section one in terms of what it is and what it is not. So I am at a bit of a loss regarding what to share specifically about grief. What I hope section one communicates is freedom and giving permission to people when it comes to grieving. That it will allow and encourage the person grieving to enter into their journey with grief in a way that is true to who they are; free to be honest with themselves, God and others (who are safe) regarding what they are feeling and experiencing; and to resist the temptation to withdraw into a cocoon of pain and suffering. Also this section reminds them that we have a God who is familiar with grief — a Father who lost a son, Jesus who lost a dear friend and wept! We are not alone, and God is with us at such times in a loving and knowing way, so one is free to share one’s raw unedited emotions with God without fear or limitation. There are also practical tips regarding thinking through birthdays and such, interacting with others, grief brain, the nature of grief — shapeshifting, waves on an ocean, triggers…. I seek to be immensely practical when it comes to navigating that first year with grief.
Can you give us just a couple examples of what one can say to those grieving?
There are a number of particular examples in the book regarding what to say, but I think what is more helpful is to give you some tips regarding what not do as you speak with someone following a loss. Do not seek to solve, example away, minimize, fix, or speak some life-altering truism that will magically lift them above their sorrow, but rather express your sorrow and sadness for what they are currently experiencing. Something as simple as “I am so sorry for your loss” and/or “I cannot begin to understand what you are going through.” These are honest expressions of grief that can help the person know they are seen, and what they are going through is painful and difficult. That is a great gift to give at such times. When in doubt do not say anything — a hug, pat of the shoulder can speak volumes too.
What is the most important advice for people trying to comfort those grieving?
This may sound strange but my answer would be — do not try to comfort. When we come with that aim, we also come with an agenda. Instead seek to be with the person in what they are feeling and experiencing — your presence is a comfort — if you can be with and refrain from fixing and rescuing.
You are a Christian pastor. Will your book be valuable for only Christians? Or only Christian pastors?
I do not see myself as a Christian pastor but as the beloved of God as stated earlier, but to answer your question, this book is designed for those who know Jesus. Ironically, non-Christians usually do better at coming alongside those who are hurting, for they know they have nothing to offer, so they simply express their sorrow. However, Christians do have something to offer and can be quick to club those who are suffering with Bible verses or clichés which are harmful rather than helpful. My hope is that pastors will use this book to help those in their congregations to care well, that it will also be a resource to give to those who are navigating the first year of loss. I have endeavored to keep this a small book, so it could be helpful and not overwhelming for those journeying with grief.
You express yourself in poetry. Would you care to share one that especially speaks to you?
I have found that poetry can be very powerful in bringing together heart and head, and the poetry found through this book is accessible to even non-poet type people (like me) and were written during that first year I myself journeyed with grief after Nathan’s death. I have chosen to share the one that I wrote a year ago that actually gave rise to this book.
“The Door Bell Rings”
Two weeks of years
have come and gone
yet the horrifying news of that night—
remains horrific,
for time does not heal
all wounds.
Tonight I catch a glimpse
of the sorrow in her eyes
she is thinking of him
missing him
I pause at his picture
sighing
feeling the pang within
time once plodding,
weighted down by our grief,
has picked up speed—
the anniversary of his
death has arrived
there is no escaping it
for tonight
as in the preceding thirteen years
the doorbell will ring
and ring and ring,
and each time we will
open the door—
to costumed children
with expectant faces
bags held in outstretched hands
reciting a sing-song chorus of
trick or treat
we too, wear a mask—
a smiling face
hiding sad eyes
as we dole out
the treats
this yearly reminder of the
horrific trick
death played on us
that Halloween
two weeks of years before
the doorbell rings—
walking to the door
we check our masks
knowing time does not heal
all wounds.
